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Comments on English dialects and he/she versus it

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English dialects and he/she versus it

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In normed Finnish language hän (he/she) refers to people, while se (it) refers to non-people. However, in spoken language, at least in many dialects, se is used also for people. (Both hän and se are still used, but it is not really relevant here how.)

With English I have been taught that it refers to non-people, while she/he refers to people. (I am ignoring the issue of gender-neutral pronouns here to focus on the central question.) However, what I have taught is various prestige dialects of English.

I guess there are a bunch of English dialects and spoken varieties with different uses of it and he/she(/etc.), but are there some major or representative examples I could look at to get a sense of the variety in this? Or maybe some general trends that hold for many dialects?

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The direct parallel of the example from Finnish does not exist in English dialects know to me. Which does not stand for much, I'm not even a native speaker.

There are some basic uses of "it" which do refer to a person and which are available rather uniformly across dialects of English.

  1. Person, often an unborn or newborn child, (or animal) whose (binary) sex is unknown or disregarded. Example: "Who was it that told you that?"

  2. Person whose gender is non-binary. (The person may have opted into the pronoun.)

  3. Jocular or derogatory use. (The sentence will often contain additional depersonalizing lexical items, creating a tension between the subject being clearly a person, but the speaker treating them as a non-person. Such usage would be studied under pragmatics, not semantics, it doesn't constitute an independent meaning of the word "it".)

  4. Ante-referential use. "John is a postman but he hates to be it." (In such a sentence, we could perhaps argue whether "it" refers to a "postman" or to John's "postmanship", which could further be analyzed as a countable person and an uncountable abstraction, respectively.)

With enough context twisting, almost every word can be made to refer to almost anything, and "it" is an especially flexible referent due to its native use to refer to any abstractions - abstractions are included in non-persons.

Many usages of "it" may look superficially like they are referring to a person, but aren't. "It is she who carries my baby." Here, "it" is a dummy pronoun which is a part of a set phrase "it is/was ... who/that ...". The phrase is used for emphasis. The fact that the "it" is used as a dummy pronoun can sometimes be confirmed once the phrase is combined with other grammatical persons or numbers than 3rd person singular: "It was ourselves who started this."

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Another common variant (4 comments)
Another common variant
Monica Cellio‭ wrote almost 2 years ago

Another common case of your first bullet is for newborn children. "We just had a baby." / "Congratulations! Is it a boy or a girl?" That's completely normal in my experience (native USian speaker, midwest/northeast). I don't know enough to know which dialects that might not be normal in.

Jirka Hanika‭ wrote almost 2 years ago · edited almost 2 years ago

Very true. I think that children (and animals) form almost the totality of the first bullet. An adult whose sex is unknown or disregarded would be much more likely to be referenced with a singular "they" or with a gender-neutral "he" or with "one" (if undeterminate) or with "he or she". It's doubtful whether "it" in my example in the first bullet point even refers to a person and not an impersonal abstraction such as "source".

Keelan‭ wrote almost 2 years ago · edited almost 2 years ago

Yes, the current example looks like an expletive pronoun to me (as in It is she who carries my baby). Not sure if that’s the right terminology, but I would replace the first example with Monica’s example.

Jirka Hanika‭ wrote almost 2 years ago · edited almost 2 years ago

Expletive pronoun, also called dummy pronoun, is a useful term here, thanks. Merriam-Webster uses the following example for item 1: "don't know who it is". I would suggest the following test to probe the boundary between a dummy pronoun and one with a clear referent: imagine that the sex of the candidate referent is known to be, say, female. I'm inclined to think that a dummy "it" can't be converted to he/she by mere knowing the sex of a certain agent. Can you replace "it" with "she"? This works for me: "Who was she that told you that?" This doesn't: "She is she/her who carries my baby." However, this isn't a conclusive argument because the same sentence could be analyzed multiple ways. Answer edited a bit.