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Q&A How did 'quibus?' shift to mean 'evasion of a point at issue'?

quibble [17] _Quibble _probably originated as a rather ponderous learned joke-word. It is derived from an earlier and now obsolete _quib _‘pun’, which appears to have been based on quibus...

1 answer · posted 3y ago by PSTH‭ · last activity 3y ago by Jirka Hanika‭

Question etymology Latin

#2: Post edited by

PSTH‭ · 2021-03-26T00:12:06Z (about 3 years ago)

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> [quibble (n.)](https://www.etymonline.com/word/quibble#etymonline_v_3188 "Origin and meaning of quibble")
>
> 1610s, "a pun, a play on words," probably a diminutive of obsolete *quib* "evasion of a point at issue" (1540s), which is based on Latin *quibus*? "by what (things)?" Its extensive use in legal writing supposedly gave it the association with trivial argument: "a word of frequent occurrence in legal documents ... hence associated with the 'quirks and quillets' of the law." \[OED\].
>
> Latin *quibus* is dative or ablative plural of *quid* "in what respect? to what extent?; how? why?," neuter of relative pronoun *quis* (from PIE root [\*kwo-](https://www.etymonline.com/word/*kwo-), stem of relative and interrogative pronouns).
[The Word Detective](http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/quibble/) also doesn't expound the semantic shift. I quote W. Rothwell's [*A Mere Quibble? Multilingualism and English Etymology*](https://doi.org/10.1080/00138380412331339100) published online on 9 Jan 2007, p 181.
>The historical dictionaries of English show that
'quibble' poses a problem for the etymologists. The OED^17 offers no firm etymology
for it, its first attestation in its modern sense of 'an equivocation, evasion
of the point' coming from 1670, almost three and a half centuries later than
the *kevel* of the Year Book. An earlier, now obsolete, sense of 'a play on words,
a pun' is attested for 1611, with the verb 'to quibble' recorded for 1629, which
might indicate that an earlier date for the noun could eventually come to light,
since it is common practice for verbs to be derived from existing nouns. The
dictionary suggests that 'quibble' may be a diminutive of the obsolete noun
'quib', attested 'a[nte] 1550', which it derives from the Latin quibus '"who,
which", as a word of frequent occurrence in legal documents and hence associated
with the quirks and quillets "of the law"'. However, the special relationship
claimed between *quibus* and the 'quirks and quillets of the law' is not
explained, and the proposed etymology will not stand serious scrutiny. The
Latin *quibus* is a common term widely used outside legal documents, an everyday
word belonging to the general register of the lexis without any particular
concentration in legal works.

>### quibble [17]
>_Quibble _probably originated as a
rather ponderous learned joke-word. It is derived
from an earlier and now obsolete _quib _‘pun’,
which appears to have been based on _quibus_, the
dative and ablative plural of Latin _quī_ ‘who,
what’. The notion is that since _quibus_ made
frequent appearances in legal documents written
in Latin, it became associated with pettifogging
points of law.
*Word Origins* (2005 2e) by John Ayto, p 408 Left column.
> [quibble (n.)](https://www.etymonline.com/word/quibble#etymonline_v_3188 "Origin and meaning of quibble")
>
> 1610s, "a pun, a play on words," probably a diminutive of obsolete *quib* "evasion of a point at issue" (1540s), which is based on Latin *quibus*? "by what (things)?" Its extensive use in legal writing supposedly gave it the association with trivial argument: "a word of frequent occurrence in legal documents ... hence associated with the 'quirks and quillets' of the law." \[OED\].
>
> Latin *quibus* is dative or ablative plural of *quid* "in what respect? to what extent?; how? why?," neuter of relative pronoun *quis* (from PIE root [\*kwo-](https://www.etymonline.com/word/*kwo-), stem of relative and interrogative pronouns).
[The Word Detective](http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/quibble/) also doesn't expound the semantic shift. I quote W. Rothwell's [*A Mere Quibble? Multilingualism and English Etymology*](https://doi.org/10.1080/00138380412331339100) published online on 9 Jan 2007, p 181.
>The historical dictionaries of English show that
'quibble' poses a problem for the etymologists. The OED^17 offers no firm etymology
for it, its first attestation in its modern sense of 'an equivocation, evasion
of the point' coming from 1670, almost three and a half centuries later than
the *kevel* of the Year Book. An earlier, now obsolete, sense of 'a play on words,
a pun' is attested for 1611, with the verb 'to quibble' recorded for 1629, which
might indicate that an earlier date for the noun could eventually come to light,
since it is common practice for verbs to be derived from existing nouns. The
dictionary suggests that 'quibble' may be a diminutive of the obsolete noun
'quib', attested 'a[nte] 1550', which it derives from the Latin quibus '"who,
which", as a word of frequent occurrence in legal documents and hence associated
with the quirks and quillets "of the law"'. However, the special relationship
claimed between *quibus* and the 'quirks and quillets of the law' is not
explained, and the proposed etymology will not stand serious scrutiny. The
Latin *quibus* is a common term widely used outside legal documents, an everyday
word belonging to the general register of the lexis without any particular
concentration in legal works.

#1: Initial revision by

PSTH‭ · 2021-03-26T00:03:50Z (about 3 years ago)

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How did 'quibus?' shift to mean 'evasion of a point at issue'?

> [quibble (n.)](https://www.etymonline.com/word/quibble#etymonline_v_3188 "Origin and meaning of quibble")
> 
> 1610s, "a pun, a play on words," probably a diminutive of obsolete *quib* "evasion of a point at issue" (1540s), which is based on Latin *quibus*? "by what (things)?" Its extensive use in legal writing supposedly gave it the association with trivial argument: "a word of frequent occurrence in legal documents ... hence associated with the 'quirks and quillets' of the law." \[OED\].
> 
> Latin *quibus* is dative or ablative plural of *quid* "in what respect? to what extent?; how? why?," neuter of relative pronoun *quis* (from PIE root [\*kwo-](https://www.etymonline.com/word/*kwo-), stem of relative and interrogative pronouns).

[The Word Detective](http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/quibble/) also doesn't expound the semantic shift. I quote W. Rothwell's [*A Mere Quibble? Multilingualism and English Etymology*](https://doi.org/10.1080/00138380412331339100) published online on 9 Jan 2007, p 181. 

>The historical dictionaries of English show that
'quibble' poses a problem for the etymologists. The OED^17 offers no firm etymology
for it, its first attestation in its modern sense of 'an equivocation, evasion
of the point' coming from 1670, almost three and a half centuries later than
the *kevel* of the Year Book. An earlier, now obsolete, sense of 'a play on words,
a pun' is attested for 1611, with the verb 'to quibble' recorded for 1629, which
might indicate that an earlier date for the noun could eventually come to light,
since it is common practice for verbs to be derived from existing nouns. The
dictionary suggests that 'quibble' may be a diminutive of the obsolete noun
'quib', attested 'a[nte] 1550', which it derives from the Latin quibus '"who,
which", as a word of frequent occurrence in legal documents and hence associated
with the quirks and quillets "of the law"'. However, the special relationship
claimed between *quibus* and the 'quirks and quillets of the law' is not
explained, and the proposed etymology will not stand serious scrutiny. The
Latin *quibus* is a common term widely used outside legal documents, an everyday
word belonging to the general register of the lexis without any particular
concentration in legal works.

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