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Q&A Possessive vs accusative case for nominalized clauses

verbal nouns and gerunds This may be a case where the differences between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be eas...

posted 6mo ago by Eric Isaac‭  ·  edited 6mo ago by Eric Isaac‭

Answer
#5: Post edited by user avatar Eric Isaac‭ · 2023-10-27T19:12:00Z (6 months ago)
Grammar, mostly -> most
  • ### verbal nouns and gerunds
  • This may be a case where the differences between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be easier to differentiate in the following sentences.
  • _Grammatical_
  • 1. She was against his sudden joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him suddenly joining the team. (_Gerund_)
  • _Ungrammatical_
  • 1. She was against his suddenly joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him sudden joining the team.
  • Verbal nouns are treated as true nouns while gerunds have some properties of both verbs and nouns.
  • ### connotation
  • It’s also worth noting that the three phrasings have slightly different connotations.
  • 1. She was against his joining the team [_his decision to join_].
  • 2. She was against his joining of the team [_how he joined_].
  • 3. She was against him joining the team [_that he is here_].
  • Of the three, the 3rd sounds the most neutral, to me as a native speaker from America, while the other two emphasize the manner of his joining. Mostly likely because _his_ hints at ownership, and therefore responsibility. I’d guess that you’ve heard the third option most often, as most people are not looking to assign blame (even subtly) in most day-to-day interactions.
  • Even as a native speaker, I needed to look this one up. It’s also possible that I, and many other English speakers, will readily accept forms of gerunds and noun phrases that are not by-the-book grammatical, but not eggregiously wrong.
  • ### verbal nouns and gerunds
  • This may be a case where the differences between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be easier to differentiate in the following sentences.
  • _Grammatical_
  • 1. She was against his sudden joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him suddenly joining the team. (_Gerund_)
  • _Ungrammatical_
  • 1. She was against his suddenly joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him sudden joining the team.
  • Verbal nouns are treated as true nouns while gerunds have some properties of both verbs and nouns.
  • ### connotation
  • It’s also worth noting that the three phrasings have slightly different connotations.
  • 1. She was against his joining the team [_his decision to join_].
  • 2. She was against his joining of the team [_how he joined_].
  • 3. She was against him joining the team [_that he is here_].
  • Of the three, the 3rd sounds the most neutral, to me as a native speaker from America, while the other two emphasize the manner of his joining. Most likely because _his_ hints at ownership, and therefore responsibility. I’d guess that you’ve heard the third option most often, as most people are not looking to assign blame (even subtly) in most day-to-day interactions.
  • Even as a native speaker, I needed to look this one up. It’s also possible that I, and many other English speakers, will readily accept forms of gerunds and noun phrases that are not by-the-book grammatical, but not eggregiously wrong.
#4: Post edited by user avatar Eric Isaac‭ · 2023-10-26T12:27:23Z (6 months ago)
Grammar correction
  • ### verbal nouns and gerunds
  • This may be a case where the difference between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be easier to differentiate in the following sentences.
  • _Grammatical_
  • 1. She was against his sudden joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him suddenly joining the team. (_Gerund_)
  • _Ungrammatical_
  • 1. She was against his suddenly joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him sudden joining the team.
  • Verbal nouns are treated as true nouns while gerunds have some properties of both verbs and nouns.
  • ### connotation
  • It’s also worth noting that the three phrasings have slightly different connotations.
  • 1. She was against his joining the team [_his decision to join_].
  • 2. She was against his joining of the team [_how he joined_].
  • 3. She was against him joining the team [_that he is here_].
  • Of the three, the 3rd sounds the most neutral, to me as a native speaker from America, while the other two emphasize the manner of his joining. Mostly likely because _his_ hints at ownership, and therefore responsibility. I’d guess that you’ve heard the third option most often, as most people are not looking to assign blame (even subtly) in most day-to-day interactions.
  • Even as a native speaker, I needed to look this one up. It’s also possible that I, and many other English speakers, will readily accept forms of gerunds and noun phrases that are not by-the-book grammatical, but not eggregiously wrong.
  • ### verbal nouns and gerunds
  • This may be a case where the differences between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be easier to differentiate in the following sentences.
  • _Grammatical_
  • 1. She was against his sudden joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him suddenly joining the team. (_Gerund_)
  • _Ungrammatical_
  • 1. She was against his suddenly joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him sudden joining the team.
  • Verbal nouns are treated as true nouns while gerunds have some properties of both verbs and nouns.
  • ### connotation
  • It’s also worth noting that the three phrasings have slightly different connotations.
  • 1. She was against his joining the team [_his decision to join_].
  • 2. She was against his joining of the team [_how he joined_].
  • 3. She was against him joining the team [_that he is here_].
  • Of the three, the 3rd sounds the most neutral, to me as a native speaker from America, while the other two emphasize the manner of his joining. Mostly likely because _his_ hints at ownership, and therefore responsibility. I’d guess that you’ve heard the third option most often, as most people are not looking to assign blame (even subtly) in most day-to-day interactions.
  • Even as a native speaker, I needed to look this one up. It’s also possible that I, and many other English speakers, will readily accept forms of gerunds and noun phrases that are not by-the-book grammatical, but not eggregiously wrong.
#3: Post edited by user avatar Eric Isaac‭ · 2023-10-25T20:56:51Z (6 months ago)
headers to break up wall of text
  • This may be a case where the difference between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be easier to differentiate in the following sentences.
  • _Grammatical_
  • 1. She was against his sudden joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him suddenly joining the team. (_Gerund_)
  • _Ungrammatical_
  • 1. She was against his suddenly joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him sudden joining the team.
  • Verbal nouns are treated as true nouns while gerunds have some properties of both verbs and nouns.
  • It’s also worth noting that the three phrasings have slightly different connotations.
  • 1. She was against his joining the team [_his decision to join_].
  • 2. She was against his joining of the team [_how he joined_].
  • 3. She was against him joining the team [_that he is here_].
  • Of the three, the 3rd sounds the most neutral, to me as a native speaker from America, while the other two emphasize the manner of his joining. Mostly likely because _his_ hints at ownership, and therefore responsibility. I’d guess that you’ve heard the third option most often, as most people are not looking to assign blame (even subtly) in most day-to-day interactions.
  • Even as a native speaker, I needed to look this one up. It’s also possible that I, and many other English speakers, will readily accept forms of gerunds and noun phrases that are not by-the-book grammatical, but not eggregiously wrong.
  • ### verbal nouns and gerunds
  • This may be a case where the difference between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be easier to differentiate in the following sentences.
  • _Grammatical_
  • 1. She was against his sudden joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him suddenly joining the team. (_Gerund_)
  • _Ungrammatical_
  • 1. She was against his suddenly joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him sudden joining the team.
  • Verbal nouns are treated as true nouns while gerunds have some properties of both verbs and nouns.
  • ### connotation
  • It’s also worth noting that the three phrasings have slightly different connotations.
  • 1. She was against his joining the team [_his decision to join_].
  • 2. She was against his joining of the team [_how he joined_].
  • 3. She was against him joining the team [_that he is here_].
  • Of the three, the 3rd sounds the most neutral, to me as a native speaker from America, while the other two emphasize the manner of his joining. Mostly likely because _his_ hints at ownership, and therefore responsibility. I’d guess that you’ve heard the third option most often, as most people are not looking to assign blame (even subtly) in most day-to-day interactions.
  • Even as a native speaker, I needed to look this one up. It’s also possible that I, and many other English speakers, will readily accept forms of gerunds and noun phrases that are not by-the-book grammatical, but not eggregiously wrong.
#2: Post edited by user avatar Eric Isaac‭ · 2023-10-25T20:53:19Z (6 months ago)
Add word, felt ungrammatical
  • This may be a case where the difference between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be easier to differentiate in the following sentences.
  • _Grammatical_
  • 1. She was against his sudden joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him suddenly joining the team. (_Gerund_)
  • _Ungrammatical_
  • 1. She was against his suddenly joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him sudden joining the team.
  • Verbal nouns are treated as true nouns while gerunds have some properties of both verbs and nouns.
  • It’s worth noting that the three phrasings have slightly different connotations.
  • 1. She was against his joining the team [_his decision to join_].
  • 2. She was against his joining of the team [_how he joined_].
  • 3. She was against him joining the team [_that he is here_].
  • Of the three, the 3rd sounds the most neutral, to me as a native speaker from America, while the other two emphasize the manner of his joining. Mostly likely because _his_ hints at ownership, and therefore responsibility. I’d guess that you’ve heard the third option most often, as most people are not looking to assign blame (even subtly) in most day-to-day interactions.
  • Even as a native speaker, I needed to look this one up. It’s also possible that I, and many other English speakers, will readily accept forms of gerunds and noun phrases that are not by-the-book grammatical, but not eggregiously wrong.
  • This may be a case where the difference between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be easier to differentiate in the following sentences.
  • _Grammatical_
  • 1. She was against his sudden joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him suddenly joining the team. (_Gerund_)
  • _Ungrammatical_
  • 1. She was against his suddenly joining of the team.
  • 2. She was against him sudden joining the team.
  • Verbal nouns are treated as true nouns while gerunds have some properties of both verbs and nouns.
  • It’s also worth noting that the three phrasings have slightly different connotations.
  • 1. She was against his joining the team [_his decision to join_].
  • 2. She was against his joining of the team [_how he joined_].
  • 3. She was against him joining the team [_that he is here_].
  • Of the three, the 3rd sounds the most neutral, to me as a native speaker from America, while the other two emphasize the manner of his joining. Mostly likely because _his_ hints at ownership, and therefore responsibility. I’d guess that you’ve heard the third option most often, as most people are not looking to assign blame (even subtly) in most day-to-day interactions.
  • Even as a native speaker, I needed to look this one up. It’s also possible that I, and many other English speakers, will readily accept forms of gerunds and noun phrases that are not by-the-book grammatical, but not eggregiously wrong.
#1: Initial revision by user avatar Eric Isaac‭ · 2023-10-25T20:44:22Z (6 months ago) 
This may be a case where the difference between verbal nouns and gerunds are causing some confusion. In most cases, they are somewhat interchangeable but it should be easier to differentiate in the following sentences.

_Grammatical_
1. She was against his sudden joining of the team.
2. She was against him suddenly joining the team. (_Gerund_)

_Ungrammatical_
1. She was against his suddenly joining of the team.
2. She was against him sudden joining the team.

Verbal nouns are treated as true nouns while gerunds have some properties of both verbs and nouns.

It’s worth noting that the three phrasings have slightly different connotations.

1. She was against his joining the team [_his decision to join_].
2. She was against his joining of the team [_how he joined_].
3. She was against him joining the team [_that he is here_].

Of the three, the 3rd sounds the most neutral, to me as a native speaker from America, while the other two emphasize the manner of his joining. Mostly likely because _his_ hints at ownership, and therefore responsibility. I’d guess that you’ve heard the third option most often, as most people are not looking to assign blame (even subtly) in most day-to-day interactions.

Even as a native speaker, I needed to look this one up. It’s also possible that I, and many other English speakers, will readily accept forms of gerunds and noun phrases that are not by-the-book grammatical, but not eggregiously wrong.