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Q&A

Comments on What is the Thai word for plurally numerical answer expectancy?

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What is the Thai word for plurally numerical answer expectancy?

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I know that in Thai language, if someone asks a numeric question and expects an answer which is plurally numerical (two or more objects), it is common to add some special word to the question.
I would like to know what is that word.

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The concrete word to be used depends on the kind of the object you want to count and it is called a "classifier". There are hundreds of classifiers in Thai; much fewer classifiers than nouns, but still a lot of them. So you might associate each classifier with a class of nouns. If you cannot use resources in Thai (in the Thai script), you could perhaps sample the most common ones here.

Classifiers are in no way specific to questions; they are needed in any context where you need to count objects. So they will appear in "how many" type questions, in answers to those questions, and also in free standing sentences where you are counting anything. Instead of "five elephants", you'd have "elephant five animal". Chairs happen to belong to the same class like elephants, being multi-legged things, so "five chairs" would be "chair five animal". And so on.

Classifiers have additional grammatical functions in Thai as well. For example they can indicate definiteness; in this situation a classifier is used without a numeral, but its presence indicates that the noun is used in singular, so you might still interpret the classifier's presence to be involved in some form of counting.

One way of thinking about those noun classes could be to compare them to grammatical genders of languages like French or German or Russian, except that there are way more noun classes in Thai (compared to just three or so genders in those other languages, or to mere nine noun classes in Swahili). What French or German achieves with suffixes (on numerals and elsewhere), is achieved in Thai with standalone words. This is a very crude comparison which doesn't hold in every detail; I'm just trying to replace the notion of a "special word" by a richer parallel from languages closer to English.

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General comments (6 comments)
General comments
Moshi‭ wrote over 3 years ago · edited over 3 years ago

I'm not sure that classifiers are what the question asker was looking for. While I can't say that I actually know what they're asking (and I know no Thai at all), the way it's phrased makes it sound like they are asking for either a question particle or an interrogative pronoun.

Jirka Hanika‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Moshi - That was my first impression from the question as well, but I reconsidered as part of celebrating the Codidact anniversary. A classifier is obligatory in a simple question of the "how many" type. There's also "กี่" which means simply "how many" which would hardly strike a fluent speaker of English as "special". And there's no third special word in the Google translate dialect of Thai.

Michael‭ wrote 6 months ago

@Moshi I strongly suspect that Jirka's answer is right. It's one of the harder things about Thai. English has classifiers ("How many pairs of pants?" and "How many lengths of string?"), though rarely obligatory and nowhere near as many as Thai. In addition to paired things, string-like things, and four-legged things, there are also round things, person-like things, two-legged non-person things, flat things, and on and on.

Moshi‭ wrote 6 months ago · edited 6 months ago

Michael‭ I have no real way of telling one way or the other as I don't know Thai, and the questioner has left Codidact so they can't elaborate, so this is likely the most useful answer we're going to have.

As an aside, there is something to be said about calling those words in English "classifiers" (which somewhat implies them being syntactically distinct from normal nouns), but yes, those are the usual analogies drawn.

By the way, to mention people on Codidact, you should click the dropdown after typing in @... This creates the special mention like in this comment which actually notifies the user.

Jirka Hanika‭ wrote 6 months ago

An arguably obligatory use of classifiers (whether we call them that or not) in English is when counting uncountable nouns. While ordinary nouns are used for that purpose, the choice of the specific noun is often idiomatic... leaving the speaker with no other choice. Conversely, the list of Thai classifiers referenced from the answer concludes with "...common words may occassionally be used as classifiers."

To appreciate that this is both similar and different from the situation in Thai, let's check the classifier represented in the answer as "animal" (for counting of elephants, chairs, and, incidentally, of pants, too). Is it (also) an ordinary noun in Thai? Well, yes, but then it means "body", it does not mean "animal" if used, say, as the head of a subject. Now, apply the same exercise to the English word "length" and you may spot that the classifier meaning and the "regular" meaning aren't identical, either.

Jirka Hanika‭ wrote 6 months ago

Let's not get carried too far away from the question at hand, however. Thai grammar needs to invoke the concept of classifiers precisely because they serve way more functions than counting; counting is just a textbook example of a context where they are obligatory. English does not come anywhere close to that, regarding the grammaticalization of its (say) idiomatic counting words.